Parsoli's MD Zafar Sareshwala's inspiring rags to riches story afterthe damage suffered by the company during Gujarat riots published inHindustan Times today..
http://hindustantimes.com/news/181_1839214,000900040003.htm
Real strong story about the guy who braved multiple tragedies and triumphed over all odds...
Its another reason to hate the like of HKL Bhagat, Sajjan Kumar, Tytler, Advani, Modi, Thackeray, VHP, Bajrang dal... They are bad for the India's unity and Economy at large.
I wonder if any of them will ever be brought to justice.
You hate RSS, Shiv Sena, VHP, Bajrang Dal? Good.
ReplyDeleteYou like the secularism of India? Good.
But whom does this term "Secularism" serve? Have you ever given a thought to that?
Who benefits from this Secularism?
Is it not the Christians and Muslims who are rapidly expanding their base and converting people in this country?
Are the Hindus not loosing? So what is wrong in RSS etal raising their voice against it?
What do these Christian and Muslim mercenaries(missionaries) want?
They ultimately want power...
Did you not see how the Kerala Church kept ranting that the Christians must copulate and populate. Otherwise they will loose political power in many constituencies?
Dont you know that the Muslims vote enmasse to ensure that their candidate gets voted?
What secularism are you talking about?
That secularism which demands the Hindus remain silent even when they are being duped in their own country.
That secularism which makes Hindus feel alien in India?
That secularism which is destabilising the country ( Kashmir, Assam (Muslim Secularism),
North East States (Christian Secularism)).
Wake up mister.
Dont live in a utopian world.
Secularism is good when all the parties concerned believe in it.
There should be give and take.
Secularism is a curse when one has to keep giving and others keep taking.
Thanks to your "GIFT" of secularism,
we will see India disintegrating soon.
Forces in India are already playing to the tunes of their foriegn Masters.
Wake up man wake up.
It looks like you stay in Doha has made you think that all places are heaven.
SECULARISM IS A CURSE TO INDIA.
Dear Harsha,
ReplyDeleteI appreciate your effort in writing such a lengthy post to put your point of view. I respect your right to oppose secularism and support Right Wing parties as I have to do the opposite.
I have put in my point of view on my blog, you can read it, agree/disagree that upto you.
Let me try to answer the points.
Secularism benefits 1.2 billion people. Religious fundamentalism benefits a few opportunities political parties.
I'm a proud Hindu who believes the strength of our country is the diversity with Sikhs, Christians, Moslems, Jews, Tribal. As for population of the Christians and Moslems rising, well your right partially, The Christian population has fallen while the Moslem Population has increased. But with 82% of the population being Hindus I don't think thin you have any reason to be paranoid.
I don't agree with your that secularism is the destabilizing the country and encouraging Moslems and Christians to fights against the nation, what do you say about our Hindu Naxals, Hindu Ulfa, Hindu Maoists, Hindu Ranbir Sena , Hindu LTTE.
As for Religious conversions, yes I agree with you that some of the Church missionaries are helping the Advasis and other people and converting them.. That's wrong no one should con/brain-wash anyone into any religion. But the there are Hare Krsna missions around the world. We are also also exporting Hinduism around the world with Iskon.
I'm not living in Utpoia, I know its not a perfect world there are bad elements in every fold of our society but the key is if the Country is strong we can fuck the happiness of anyone who dares to disintegrate the country.
I still believe that though Secularism is not the best medicine for 1.2 billion people its better that having the Poison of Fundamentalism.
Jai Hind
Dear Harsha,
ReplyDeleteI firstly think your rant against secularism is lacking a clear argument. You have relied on statements instead of a logical explanation of why you think secularism is bad for India and how you think Muslims/Christians are benefiting from India being Secular.
Secularism is what makes us a great country esp. when compared to our neighbours which have a history of pettiness and oppression based on religion. Its what has drawn the smartest people to India as they feel they can live life on their own terms without being judged based on the religion of their birth, choosing or lack thereof.
We are backward not because of secularism but because of morons like yourself who lack the education and intellect to rise above rhetoric and think clearly about issues once they are given even a slight religious tinge. This is what political parties have been exploiting and why India today is stuck in the rut of minority appeasement and majority chest-beating.
Since you did not learn civics its my job to inform you that Secularism is also enshrined in our constitution and is one of the basic principles of the foundation of our country. If you don't want to respect what our country stands for, we're surrounded by three large water bodies - you know what to do.
Dear Harsha,
ReplyDeleteEven though I understand your argument, I dont agree with it. What you are trying to say is EXACTLY what is going on in the United States. The Whites are worried that the foreigners and minorities are coming here and controlling the country. You are worried that the hindus will be taken over by the christians and the muslims. The christian population has reduced, and the muslim population has increased...but the hindus constitute of 82% of the population...what are you scared of? Do you think the christians and muslims are that mighty? India is a secular country..and it has taken A LOT of time to make it secular. My ancestry is of the former portuguese empire in Goa..we were sent out of Goa by hindu fundamentalists. That doesnt mean I hate hindus..we are all human....It is people that you that make your entire race look bad. Try to deal with the world instead of complaining. Ever heard of Charles Darwin's theory of the "Survival of the Fittest"? Try to live with the world, even though you might not be particularly fond of them, and stop this supremacist crap. And if you still believe in this supremacist crap, I hope to never see you in the good 'ol USofA.
- Mark deSouza
This wikipedia article nicely explains what secularism means, and why is it important to separate state decisions from religion. Also, secularism promotes freedom to practice any religion.
ReplyDeleteBut the real question is - is this definition of secularism really implemented in India, or does it just remain one word in our constitution? The later seems to be the case here.
IMHO, we are pseudo-secular, because:
. we use religion as the prime factor in making critical decisions (for eg., the recent reservation policy for OBCs', etc.)
. We play vote-bank politics based on religion, exploiting religion badly.
Religious fanaticism is a side-effect of being pseudo-secular. So, even though secularism is good in principle, it does not help being pseudo-secular.
Best,
Amarendra
Bombayite, what I am trying to say is, The Constitution has said that every
ReplyDeleteindian has right to practice, preach and propagate.
It has to be changed to practice only.
Propagation by conversion should be stopped.
Dear Mark,
I too am from Goa. What hindu fundamentalists are you talking about?
I am sure you remember the Brutal Salazar who murdered, raped Hindus who did not convert to Christianity. Not for nothing does Goa have 38% Christians.
Please get your facts right.
And My Dear Anonymous,
Fuck your "CLEAR THINKING" . Enlightened MORONS like you who have accumulated bullshit knowledge from Newspapers, News channels and profess to be allknowing should be hung on the nearest pole.
Without knowing the ground reality please dont go about explaining BOOKISH knowledge to everyone..... THEORYBOY.
Hello all,
ReplyDeleteThis is in response to the discussion on secularism in India and its repercussions. There are couple of misconceptions ABOUT secularism.
1. As defined in the Indian constitution or widely understood the concept of equality or ability to practice of all religions IS A LAUDABLE concept in theory, but what is happening in India over the last many decades is that some religious groups have greater lattitude or different yardstick in the matters of civil law, family succession, adoption etc.
2. Take the number of Official government holidays ( NOT TO BE CONFUSED with optional/restricted holidays) which commemorate birth of Jesus Christ, Prophet Mohammad, Lord Mahavir, Guru Nanak and even Mahatma Gandhi are public holidays where as Krishna Janmashtami and Ramanavami are not.
3. In the USA a country whose constitution provides for strict separation of State and Church, which means the state has no official religion, the White House has an official Christmas tree and celebrates Christmas. The US Post, to its credit brings out X'mas postage stamps ( US post did bring out stamps to commemorate Eid and Hanukkah but not to commemorate any Hindu festivals).
4. In fact there is more religious freedom for Hindus in the Judeo-Christian USA than in so called secular India as evidenced by the proliferation of Hindu temples and Indian cultural centers.
5. Secularism or rather psuedo-secularism in India has tried very hard make Hindu majority feel guilty for practicing their religion and festivals and in some cases the courts have tried to curtail some aspects of Hindu festivals like Diwali and Ganesh Chathurthi, whereas practioners of other religions like Islam have been known flout court orders in respect of use of public streets for gathering and prayers and for use of loudspeakers with impunity with government authorities not having the guts enforce the laws on the statute or courts verdicts.
6. By the way I wish to correct the assertion of "Blogger Bombayite" that LTTE as hindu LTTE, there many Tamil Christians including some in the top hierarchy of the organization.
7. In summary secularism as practiced in India is bad for the national interests and counter productive and may lead to Hindu backlash against minorities. This is not unique to India but is happening in even ultra liberal western democracies like Denmark and Netherlands because you can only push the majority only so much before the reaction kicks in
Hey Folks,
ReplyDeleteThis stream of comments is getting interesting. For those who are defensive about Hindu majority India's secularism or psuedosecularism or the way minorities are treated read this piece from USA today. Here is the link http://www.savethis.clickability.com/st/saveThisApp?clickMap=link&webPadID=K162623900
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
ReplyDeleteDear Harsha,
ReplyDeleteThere is a bad apple in every basket. A majority of the hindus from Goa are from other states. Just like how a majority of the people in Bombay(yes, I still consider it Bombay..not Mumbai)are not marathi. The hindus and the muslims are no better. You should try to avoid stereotypes. That is what makes all hindu conservatives like you look bad. I am originally from Goa, though we left after the Indian Government took over. My town was a small christian town in Xeven, so I never met any hindu goans. You are my first, and if I were as narrow-minded as you, I would think that all Hindu Goans were bad, but I dont stoop that low.
I just wrote a post today on my blog, regarding the tension between the ethnic groups in India.
It is true that I was born in Kuwait and then moved to the states. And people convert because they want to. They also convert because their original religion did not satisfy them. Maybe you should try to educate your children before you blame other people for your inefficiencies. I have been a minority all my life, as I have never lived in my "home country". Trust me, I know what it is like to "adapt". Maybe you should consider trying that.
I fully agree with you MUMBAIWALLAH.
ReplyDeleteI would also like to add my thoughts.
Secularism is good for some people.Now, who are these people?
Obviously, Christians and Muslims. They can use it as a guise to propagate their faith thru conversions.
What is secularism? Professing ones faith and respecting others faith.
What do the above mentioned religions do? Insult Hindu Gods, Mythology, make fun of Hindu customs, critisize and take advantage of the caste structure and then convert people.
Aren't they dividing the society in their own silent,decietful and dangerous way?
Do they also not yearn for power just like RSS is seen to be?
Does secularism not apply to them?
Why should it only apply to Hindus? When the very basis of Christianity and Islam is to propagate by decietful or thru voilence means, how can one expect secularism from them?
Aren't the Christian missionaries and Muslim mullahs as fundamentalist and communal as one makes out RSS to be?
Is fundamentalism and communalism only attributed to voilence?
Is it a crime being a Hindu in this country which was HINDU for centuries?
How come secularism still exists in India? Is it not because of the Hindus?
So why Hate RSS etc. They want to make the Hindus aware of the realities that are going on unnoticed, silently?
There are many Hindus like Bombayite, and that particular M.fu**ing Anonymous who have the Hare mentality.. "Lets wait till the water comes till the neck"....it will be too late after that.
As regards Hindu Naxals, Hindu Ulfa, Hindu Maoists, Hindu Ranbir Sena.....
Naxals and Maoists are one and the same and Maoists dont subscibe to ANY RELIGION.
Ulfa has lots of cadre from Muslim Bangladesh and Christian NorthEast.
And Hindu Ranbir Sena are a band of people fighting against a band of Naxal labourers.
None of the above use any GODS as a symbol of their existance.
There is another thought that Hindus are 80% of population, why worry.
Just take a ook at the NorthEast and be worried.
It has been converted entirely.
The NE people are slowly forgetting their Indian identity. They are looking to the West, living western lifestyles and dont want to be associated with India. They want separation. So wheres the unity? And wheres secluarism?
Look at Kashmir.. They want separation on religious grounds.. where is secularism?
where was secularism when Pandits were killed, raped and were driven out from Kashmir? Why is it only remembered when a Godhra occurs?
In the garb of helping people, reaching out to the needy, educating children missionaries are rapidly converting people of India and making them slaves to forces in the VATICAN and MECCA.
And we have our secular brothers who dont just get it... they are too blind... living in a filmy world.
Secularism is definately a curse.....
India should be rightly declared a HINDU country, where all the other religions can be PRACTISED freely without fear...
Dear Harsha,
ReplyDeleteWhy were you so annoyed with Anonymous? Did you not understand the words that were coming out of his mouth? You mention a lot of violence, and you sound very conservative and like a true hindu supremacist. Whats wrong? Brought up in a small town, didn't attend school, and daddy's cycle shop lost business when everyone started buying scooters and cars? :)
Harsha...stay in India. Then again..I dont think we'd want your filthy ass in this beautiful country.
ReplyDeleteLook ...
ReplyDeleteMark getting angry...
Thats the real Mark....the hidden Mark.
Truth bites man....
Thanks for permitting me to stay in India. All what you said about me was absolutely true..
Didn't attend school coz there was no place for a fundamentalist like me in a convent school.
Dads cycle shop was burnt in Goa and we were driven out by Portugese..
You profess to be broad minded, but are fiercely narrow minded in actions.
Well, the hindus should build more schools then. The convents were built for a purpose, and were funded by Christians. If you want to go to one, go ahead. We wont stop you. You can still be hindu and come to our schools. That is how we are..open-minded. Your people convert because they arent satisfied with hinduism. Hinduism has some good points, like every religion. Teach your children about your faith, and maybe they will love it more.
ReplyDeleteAlso, I am sorry about your dads cycle shop.
Thanks for showing your concern Mark, however false it may be.
ReplyDeleteDont be sorry about my dads cycle shop. He now sells bikes and cars.
People convert because their dissatisfaction is wrongly played upon. People are converted and then controlled...
Building convents WITH A PURPOSE is a part of the design.
And yeah a word of caution, if at all you go back to your motherland, KUWAIT, do not try to convert Muslims there. They are not as magnanimous like hindus. They will butcher you.
Take care brother.
It was nice debating with you...
Thanks Bombayite
Over and Out.
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
ReplyDeleteIf you didnt treat the people of the lower caste so badly, maybe they would like hindus more. This also applies to all those neglected poverty-stricken hindus in India.
ReplyDeleteAnd for the record, I went to a CATHOLIC SCHOOL in kuwait. Carmel School. They have lots of branches in India as well. We have never had problems there. Infact, we had more hindus and muslims in our school, but we all got along well. There was no hatred.
No matter what, Kuwait will always be my home. I have no problem with Islam or Hinduism. I think there are more important things out there, other than religion. Those people who have limited success are the ones who usually try to use religion as a tool. I believe religion should be a way of life. I had a hindu girlfriend for 4 years. She taught me a lot about hinduism, and she learnt my beliefs too. We were educated, which might be a reason as to why we believed in tolerance.
It was good holding this debate with you. I am sorry you lost, but better luck next time. You might have given up on those hind-traitors who convert to other religions, but don't give up in life. You are what you make of yourself . :)
I read most of the comments here and I think bombayite is been misunderstood! but then also everyone has there right of opinion to say!
ReplyDeleteI think a secular world is what we need or else everything will fall apart into pieces!
Religion is one aspect which teaches everyone the tolerance, the path to walk and reach solace but then we live with people and there even though religions are different the need is same!
A good post a very thought provoking debate...you should have more :)
Cheers
Dear All,
ReplyDeleteI appreciate all your inputs and views on the matter, and hope n pray that no Indian ever kills or hurts fellow countrymen.
I respect all your views (harsha, mark, mumbaiwallah, fiza), I hope its channlised towards a better India.
Pls do not more any more comments.
peace n tc
hi mumbaiyte,
ReplyDeletesorry to poke in between.
our very learned, honest but CROOKED prime minister has just said that minorities especially muslims have the first right to resources in the country.
HAIL SECULARISM,
if minoritysm is secularism then hey, i am in love with RSS, Shiva Sena, VHP, BD and HMS.
dear taklu,
ReplyDeleteI agree wid you what our PM said was totally fcukall and uncalled for.
I'm against favoritsim and appeasing minoritsm, all am saying is every Indian irrespective of his religion, caste, creed should have equal opportunities in every sphere of life in India.
tc